Was Starling’s Rebrand a Fail & Revolut’s AI Gamble?

Revolut is betting big on AI agents to handle customer service, sales, and even fraud cases, but are people really ready to trust a chatbot with their money?

Meanwhile, Curve’s £120m sale to Lloyds has turned into a messy showdown with investors threatening legal action, and Starling’s big rebrand has left customers and critics asking whether it’s bold… or a flop?

In this September recap, Jonny and Jan dive into:

• Revolut’s new AI division and what it means for banking
• Klarna’s IPO and the rise of the “Klarnauts”
• Curve’s shareholder drama and why Lloyds might back away
• Starling’s rebrand: aubergine cards, “electric teal” and all
• The latest UK & EU savings rate changes

👉 If you enjoy these roundups, please follow Banking Without Borders, and leave us a rating to support the show.

Connect with us (via LinkedIn)

Jan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jan-watermann/

Jonny: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonny-pease

Got a question or topic you want us to cover? Drop us a message at jonny@technicallymoney.com

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:06:13
Unknown
Okay. Welcome back to another episode of Banking Without Borders. Today we're doing our September monthly recap, and we have a lot to discuss, people.

00:00:06:13 - 00:00:08:03
Unknown
There's a lot happening. So Revolut

00:00:08:03 - 00:00:15:06
Unknown
is entering the AI agent space. And they're aiming to automate areas like sales, customer service and even financial assistance.

00:00:15:06 - 00:00:29:09
Unknown
we wanted to discuss the potential ramifications of AI and banking, because I'm not sure if people really want to be talking to a computer about their bank accounts or trying to resolve incidents of fraud with a chat bot voice that's like entirely computer generated.

00:00:29:09 - 00:00:35:14
Unknown
Revolut also once again recorded the highest number of fraud and scam complaints that were escalated to the Fos

00:00:35:14 - 00:00:39:07
Unknown
beating every other bank, and they did this back in 2023. So

00:00:39:07 - 00:00:47:22
Unknown
things haven't really improved, even though ironically, they've probably implemented a lot of AI since then to try and help detect fraud.

00:00:47:22 - 00:00:51:10
Unknown
Also, Revolut has a new futuristic office, so we're going to react to that.

00:00:51:10 - 00:00:53:15
Unknown
we'll also react to Starling Bank's rebrand.

00:00:53:15 - 00:00:55:08
Unknown
Or should I just say Starling

00:00:55:08 - 00:00:57:04
Unknown
because they've dropped the bank part,

00:00:57:04 - 00:01:04:09
Unknown
We'll also discuss this acquisition of Curv by Lloyds, which is really hotting up. It's actually becoming a bit of a soap opera. So get your popcorn out.

00:01:04:09 - 00:01:05:13
Unknown
first, Yann,

00:01:05:13 - 00:01:08:22
Unknown
I thought Revolut already had a ton of AI.

00:01:08:22 - 00:01:12:06
Unknown
At least that's the impression I get when I contact customer support.

00:01:12:06 - 00:01:15:07
Unknown
it would appear that this is just the beginning.

00:01:15:07 - 00:01:21:01
Unknown
Johnny. Exciting news from revolute here. So they set up a dedicated AI department, and they're planning to build,

00:01:21:01 - 00:01:33:13
Unknown
I call it into agents, mainly, but also all to other AI based services, which could be quite interesting. So chances are, if you're reaching out to revolute in the future, you might be talking to a computer instead of a real human.

00:01:33:13 - 00:01:44:19
Unknown
I mean, it comes with pros and cons, right? It's it's very clear that, the availability of these services is going to be drastically improved. I'm not sure if you've tried to to reach out to revolute at some point in the past.

00:01:44:19 - 00:01:50:00
Unknown
at least for me, with a standard account, it always takes quite some time to be actually connected to a human.

00:01:50:02 - 00:02:08:15
Unknown
And that would be. Yeah, obviously fixed with that. The question, however, is, yeah. How good are these services going to be right now? You've probably, you know, chatted with ChatGPT for quite some time. I do that regularly, even on a daily basis. And, I must say, while it's good, most of the time,

00:02:08:15 - 00:02:12:23
Unknown
you know, there are cases where I would prefer a human interaction personally.

00:02:12:23 - 00:02:13:15
Unknown
Especially when you

00:02:13:15 - 00:02:13:19
Unknown
look at

00:02:13:19 - 00:02:19:05
Unknown
statistics, it's just fact. The AI bots, large language models, they hallucinate

00:02:19:05 - 00:02:30:04
Unknown
like 10% of the time. They don't know if the answer they're giving you is correct. And the same will apply for a chat bot. And we're talking about finance. We're talking about banking products. Again, it needs to be accurate.

00:02:30:04 - 00:02:48:05
Unknown
super important. What's also going to be interesting is, that most of these. Yeah, I bots are going to be called contract agents. Right. So, I guess revolute. That would be the logical thing to do. They'd probably be launching a phone service later on this year or maybe next year.

00:02:48:07 - 00:03:05:20
Unknown
So you'd be able to. Yeah. Reach out to someone at revolute. Some computer at revolute, through your phone. How that's going to work in practice? I don't know, we'll see. But I've personally never, never interacted with an AI content agent that, has really convinced me. You know, it's typically

00:03:06:10 - 00:03:07:10
Unknown
Have you had

00:03:07:10 - 00:03:17:15
Unknown
have you had a back and forth conversation though, or have you had like an automated one where really where it was talking and you would be returning, you were responding and then it was responding live.

00:03:17:15 - 00:03:32:18
Unknown
was a few sales call. It actually happens quite regularly. I must be on some phone list, but people call me, typically. Yeah, I chat bots, and then, they're trying to sell me something, and it's. It sounds quite okay at first, right? A little bit robotic. But that's not the issue.

00:03:32:18 - 00:03:56:10
Unknown
The the tone of voice is not. Definitely not the issue. Yeah, but whenever I say something, they stop immediately. At least that's what I've experienced personally. And then they they obviously let me talk, but it sounds. Yeah. I mean, you feel it's a computer. It's it's okay. Right. It gets it gets the job done. But, now imagine you have an issue with your bank you really need to resolve, maybe you need to transfer some money today.

00:03:56:10 - 00:04:05:01
Unknown
I don't know, maybe your account is frozen. Whatever is the issue. And then you are. You're stuck with a computer. I'm not sure what to think about that personally.

00:04:05:01 - 00:04:21:17
Unknown
Yeah. Personally I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I think there are some definite red flags, particularly where we are at the moment in like an AI infancy. Things are still quite early on. Things aren't actually performing that well. We're seeing hallucinations from ChatGPT, from cold, from various limbs. We're seeing a lot of problems emerging.

00:04:21:19 - 00:04:31:16
Unknown
I just isn't as sophisticated as I think people initially expected. It to be at this stage. So you're going to implement unsophisticated? In my opinion, at least I, into a banking infrastructure ecosystem,

00:04:31:16 - 00:04:40:18
Unknown
which is required to help customers live who have problems with their money. The most important thing to most people on this planet,

00:04:40:18 - 00:04:42:17
Unknown
I cannot see that going well.

00:04:42:20 - 00:04:43:17
Unknown
It is frightening.

00:04:43:17 - 00:04:49:18
Unknown
could possibly be frightening as well? Yeah. I don't know what you think about this. Could you see them implementing it into a sales,

00:04:49:18 - 00:05:01:05
Unknown
platform of some sort so you could get a call from a Revolut AI chat bot that would be like, hey, I've seen how much money you're, like, transferring internationally. I think the premium plan would be better to help you save money.

00:05:01:07 - 00:05:05:02
Unknown
Like, do you think they would go that far?

00:05:05:04 - 00:05:12:21
Unknown
Off.

00:05:12:23 - 00:05:16:23
Unknown
That's what triggered me. That's what made me think. I wonder if Revolut would do the same thing.

00:05:16:23 - 00:05:20:22
Unknown
they would. I mean, it's it's logical. And, to be honest, I don't think I would have any,

00:05:20:22 - 00:05:21:05
Unknown
any

00:05:21:14 - 00:05:22:18
Unknown
Oh.

00:05:22:18 - 00:05:22:21
Unknown
a

00:05:22:21 - 00:05:24:14
Unknown
real case behind it, you know,

00:05:24:14 - 00:05:32:08
Unknown
let's say someone, someone would call me and say, hey, Yann, I've noticed you've been you've been spending quite a lot of money abroad, right?

00:05:32:08 - 00:05:40:03
Unknown
paid us, I don't know, $100 in fees over the last few months. If you switch your plan, you would save half of that.

00:05:44:03 - 00:05:48:17
Unknown
I'd actually appreciate the call. It. But obviously, like the, the, the reasoning needs to be

00:05:48:17 - 00:05:49:19
Unknown
there.

00:05:49:19 - 00:05:56:07
Unknown
it sounds logical. What you've just described to me sounds fair, but I think some people would have a hard time with just the

00:05:56:07 - 00:06:16:01
Unknown
the transparency side of being told that this artificial intelligence, being large language model is analyzing my financial data, coming to a decision that I need to be sold a product that will save me money, which I think is a good thing in some degree, but I think some people will have a problem with that.

00:06:16:03 - 00:06:18:01
Unknown
I think some people will find that hard to accept.

00:06:18:01 - 00:06:21:02
Unknown
Now imagine starts to hallucinate. And the data

00:06:23:10 - 00:06:29:03
Unknown
premium plan is the best plan for your for you personally, it's. And then it turns out not to be the case. I mean,

00:06:29:08 - 00:06:58:11
Unknown
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Me too. Me too. Like, you know, like Revolut bots phoning like 16 year old account users using like, teen accounts, offering to sell them on like the ultra premium ultra. Sorry. So they can access Tinder gold lie and the Tinder gold for the 16 year old. You can just see that happening because it's going to be at such a large scale that it's just inevitable that there'll be hallucinations and problems, which is the frightening thing, because Revolut are looking at scale like products that are scalable.

00:06:58:13 - 00:07:06:17
Unknown
That's how Rev Lee's business model has been built around scalability and around around being cost effective. And that's why I to them is so appealing.

00:07:06:17 - 00:07:12:09
Unknown
They're going to want to scale this into every avenue that they have, particularly when they have 60 million customers to try and handle.

00:07:12:09 - 00:07:13:14
Unknown
But at that scale,

00:07:13:14 - 00:07:15:09
Unknown
You're guaranteeing that there's going to be problems

00:07:15:09 - 00:07:18:14
Unknown
if we jump across to Klarna now, we want to talk about the IPO.

00:07:18:14 - 00:07:37:08
Unknown
But I just want to say, like Klarna. Yeah. And I don't know if you remember this, but they reduced the headcount, I think in 2023 from 3800, I believed 3100 around the 3000 mark. How do you think that they were able to fire that many employees?

00:07:37:10 - 00:07:38:06
Unknown
Exactly.

00:07:38:06 - 00:07:40:05
Unknown
chat bot, but, complaints soared.

00:07:42:00 - 00:07:46:17
Unknown
I don't know if that's going to happen to revolute. I mean, they don't do they have a phone service in place right now?

00:07:46:17 - 00:07:46:22
Unknown
I

00:07:46:22 - 00:07:47:09
Unknown
yeah, I

00:07:47:09 - 00:07:55:07
Unknown
didn't correct you early on. But yeah, they do. They have the ultra plan that has the priority customer support. And I think I'm just going to jump on the Revolut website quickly. But I believe

00:07:55:07 - 00:07:55:21
Unknown
you can get

00:07:55:21 - 00:08:00:07
Unknown
in-app call for premium metal and ultra with Revolut and Klarna.

00:08:00:07 - 00:08:06:05
Unknown
I think you need to look at Klarna, possibly because it was 2023 and our alarms weren't as well equipped or as advanced as they are now.

00:08:06:05 - 00:08:11:08
Unknown
So that's why it didn't work so successfully. But I don't think it really matters how good these chat bots are.

00:08:11:08 - 00:08:22:17
Unknown
I think people just want to interact with a human being now. Possibly they'll get it to the point where it will be like talking to a human, but they'll have to be transparent about it and tell you that it's a chatbot or an and an AI.

00:08:22:19 - 00:08:32:20
Unknown
They have to. I'm sure there'll be some legislation involved. And so I think people will just switch off immediately when it comes to stuff like this. I think one of the problems kind of face is people just want to speak to a human

00:08:32:20 - 00:08:41:21
Unknown
the reason they rolled this back and the reason they kind of tried to desperately beg their employees to come back was because their Trustpilot was just inundated with complaints about poor customer service.

00:08:41:21 - 00:08:46:16
Unknown
I think that's going to be a potential problem for Revolut. And I think they've just started to build up their Trustpilot. They're just starting to look

00:08:46:16 - 00:08:49:13
Unknown
like things are doing better in terms of customer service,

00:08:49:13 - 00:08:53:05
Unknown
you know, the kind of brand feeling that people get with Revolut. I think it is improving.

00:08:53:05 - 00:08:56:02
Unknown
But I don't know. I can see this having problems for sure.

00:08:56:02 - 00:09:06:23
Unknown
Regarding Klarna, the young, let's just talk about this quickly because this IPO that they recently did this month, I don't know if anyone's watching this, if anyone FOMO into it because there was a slight uptick

00:09:06:23 - 00:09:11:04
Unknown
what's really interesting about this one is the fact that so many of their employees

00:09:11:04 - 00:09:12:20
Unknown
are now essentially millionaires

00:09:12:20 - 00:09:13:06
Unknown
yeah,

00:09:13:06 - 00:09:20:04
Unknown
about 40 current and former employees. Did they actually call notes now hold shares

00:09:20:12 - 00:09:43:04
Unknown
Yeah I want to I want to talk about this this claw notes, this thing, this this name it, this is like corporate weird like tribal naming thing. It's got me thinking right. So club notes. So let's look at other company names for example like if you go to work for slack, are you called a slacker?

00:09:43:06 - 00:09:52:08
Unknown
Surely not. Right. And what about what about if you go to work for OnlyFans? They do. They call you OnlyFans?

00:09:54:02 - 00:09:54:16
Unknown
Maybe.

00:09:55:02 - 00:10:00:05
Unknown
But I find this whole tribal, corporate, tribal naming thing like claw notes to be so strange.

00:10:00:05 - 00:10:03:14
Unknown
What's interesting yarn is that the the CEO

00:10:03:14 - 00:10:22:09
Unknown
isn't selling any of his shares, whereas some of the lower grade corporate like executives, like the CMO, I think maybe even the CT0, I know the c, sorry. The CEO, CMO and the Chief product officer, CPO sorry about the ridiculous acronyms, but these people are offloading or selling some of their shares.

00:10:22:11 - 00:10:29:11
Unknown
Whereas the CEO, whose name I cannot pronounce and the CTO holding onto their shares, which signals confidence,

00:10:29:11 - 00:10:37:11
Unknown
Yeah. It's a good sign for investors, for sure. I mean, if that's what you want, if you're investing into a company, especially a fast growing fintech startup, you want CEOs that are

00:10:37:11 - 00:10:44:07
Unknown
you do you plan on investing? Would you, without giving financial advice, would you invest in.

00:10:44:07 - 00:11:04:16
Unknown
Not really. To be honest, I, I made it a habit habit to, to at least invest into, into companies that are profitable. That's, that's just what I, what I do, and to be honest, with their buy now, pay later business model, I know their transition to transitioning towards a towards becoming a neobank right now.

00:11:04:18 - 00:11:25:17
Unknown
But they're still, yeah, heavily dependent on their buy now, pay later business model. That comes with some issues. Right. Some profitability issues. So yeah, I'm not sure if they can they can even reach the ambitious goals they set themselves. And, yeah, I'd rather not invest personally, but, I know many people that are thinking otherwise, and, yeah, maybe it's a good investment.

00:11:25:17 - 00:11:26:09
Unknown
Time will tell you.

00:11:26:09 - 00:11:35:02
Unknown
I'm not really sure how I feel. There's a few things to unpack here. Like if we just look at like the macro economic environment right now, the wider kind of global economy is

00:11:35:02 - 00:11:42:18
Unknown
seems to be doing okay. Although the consumer sentiment is a little bit downbeat, people aren't really that happy to be spending large amounts of money at the moment.

00:11:42:18 - 00:12:02:14
Unknown
Cost of living is increasing. There's a lot of inflation around the world, so people are spending less. If Klarna can survive an economic downturn, if things get tough and kind of can see it through. I think if you look at their customer base, millions and millions of people all around the world that they can leverage, that they can utilize and try and push towards a neobank, revolute style system.

00:12:02:16 - 00:12:19:23
Unknown
I think if they can achieve that and if they can get through the, the, the worst parts of the global economy right now and, and, you know, we can see a bit of a boom maybe as a result of generative AI. Maybe we'll see productivity go through the roof. You could see a company like Klarna riding that wave, particularly given the amount of customers that they have around the world.

00:12:19:23 - 00:12:25:08
Unknown
Yeah, they could be a revolut. You said. You said yourself that sort of shifting to this neobank system,

00:12:25:08 - 00:12:31:17
Unknown
well, why can't they just copy the Revolut playback playbook and leverage that customers that they currently have to build a global super app.

00:12:31:17 - 00:12:39:07
Unknown
this is all just hypotheticals. But they do have a large customer base. They do have access to large amounts of people.

00:12:39:07 - 00:12:56:01
Unknown
So they could leverage that if they can get banking licenses around the world as well. That could be really, really promising right now. As it stands, though, I would not invest. This is not financial advice, but I would personally not invest in Klarna. There are a couple of reasons for that. The unexplained not being profitable. I'd be looking towards the future outlook of Connor.

00:12:56:01 - 00:13:00:11
Unknown
I'd be waiting maybe another six months to a year to see what comes after quarterly results.

00:13:00:11 - 00:13:16:16
Unknown
There's also the fact that a large amount of their current shareholders who became millionaires after the IPO cannot sell their shares until March, which is a big thing to know if you're thinking about investing in Connor. Right. Because come March, if they start offloading their shares, that share price is going to drop massively.

00:13:16:18 - 00:13:22:21
Unknown
But and you can see this, you can see buying and selling on platforms like tradingview.com. If you see like a

00:13:22:21 - 00:13:36:08
Unknown
you know, there isn't all of a sudden a massive uptick in selling and people aren't offloading shares in March, April, May. In fact the price is still rising. You could probably say wow, their employees seem confident.

00:13:36:08 - 00:13:38:14
Unknown
Well, these are employees that will have access to financials.

00:13:38:15 - 00:13:47:01
Unknown
We'll be able to see revenue, profit. They'll they'll know what's happening inside the company. And that could be a good indication of what's happening at Klarna. Personally, I'm going to wait.

00:13:47:01 - 00:13:50:12
Unknown
for the reasons I said regarding like, becoming a super app and leveraging all those customers.

00:13:50:16 - 00:13:54:06
Unknown
But in the short term, I think it's wise to wait.

00:13:54:06 - 00:13:57:06
Unknown
Curve. Johnny, Lloyds wants to acquire curve.

00:13:57:06 - 00:14:08:09
Unknown
And it seems like the the curve shareholders aren't really happy about it, which I, I fully understand, I believe they've raised about 250 million pounds over, the, the last few years. And,

00:14:08:09 - 00:14:10:01
Unknown
curve,

00:14:10:01 - 00:14:14:15
Unknown
is offering about 120 million pounds, which is obviously.

00:14:14:15 - 00:14:26:03
Unknown
Yeah, basically half of what they've raised. So investors are essentially seeing. Yeah, maybe, maybe just a, yeah, just a fraction of what they've invested into, into the company.

00:14:26:03 - 00:14:29:07
Unknown
Yeah. There's some strange things happening over at curve.

00:14:29:07 - 00:14:35:18
Unknown
It felt like this Lloyds transaction was going to go through really quickly. It was imminent. And then all of a sudden it stalled

00:14:35:18 - 00:14:40:20
Unknown
because it turns out that external investors in curve companies like IDC ventures, who have

00:14:40:20 - 00:14:51:19
Unknown
sent loads of money to curve to try and build their brand are saying, no, we do not want you to sell this for 120 million or whatever it is, but we don't want you to sell that.

00:14:51:21 - 00:14:53:06
Unknown
And they're saying and

00:14:53:06 - 00:15:02:19
Unknown
the curve aren't being or the people who who work in like the corporate executives that curve like Lord Stanley, think like the CEO. They're not being apparently transparent about the details of the transaction, either.

00:15:02:19 - 00:15:06:11
Unknown
And it goes this far too. They actually are threatening litigation now.

00:15:06:11 - 00:15:08:04
Unknown
yeah, obviously that opens up the question.

00:15:08:04 - 00:15:20:00
Unknown
Does Lloyds really want to, put themselves into a position where they are acquiring, yeah, a technology company that's, you know, definitely not making money.

00:15:20:02 - 00:15:27:14
Unknown
Maybe not being being that useful after all nowadays, and then potentially also facing, a lengthy lawsuit.

00:15:27:14 - 00:15:40:05
Unknown
I think the CEO and Lord Stanley think the chairman of the board want to shift this brand. I think they probably think it's a bit of a dead duck. They want to try and get rid of it and they're grateful the curve are coming in and offering 120 million. Sorry. Lloyds are coming in and offering that money.

00:15:40:05 - 00:15:47:08
Unknown
Sorry. But what's happening is yeah like IDC the external investors unhappy about it and you're seeing this clash of these two entities.

00:15:47:08 - 00:15:53:08
Unknown
this article is a few weeks old now, but still nothing has been confirmed yet whether Lloyds will buy it. And I think Jan is right to ask the question.

00:15:53:08 - 00:16:01:06
Unknown
I think Lloyds will now be thinking, do we want to get involved in this brand that have potential outstanding legal problems

00:16:01:06 - 00:16:06:02
Unknown
could you not maybe build curve for 150 million? Could you not do this yourself?

00:16:06:02 - 00:16:08:22
Unknown
Lloyds like to just instead of taking the risk.

00:16:08:22 - 00:16:16:11
Unknown
Doesn't doesn't look like extraordinary to me personally, but, yeah. Again, I'm not a, not a tech expert. I don't know the technology behind it really. Well,

00:16:16:11 - 00:16:17:16
Unknown
Time will tell you, Johnny,

00:16:17:16 - 00:16:19:11
Unknown
while we're talking about fintech startups,

00:16:19:11 - 00:16:23:16
Unknown
you know who recently rebranded Starling Bank? So

00:16:23:21 - 00:16:24:18
Unknown
Oh, yes.

00:16:24:18 - 00:16:29:08
Unknown
up with an all new design, new logo, color palette, and also redesigned cards.

00:16:30:14 - 00:16:34:11
Unknown
I've got a few things. A few things I've been thinking about over the last couple of weeks.

00:16:34:11 - 00:16:38:22
Unknown
I mean, initially when I looked at it. Yeah, I was like, it kind of looks like a comic book drawing,

00:16:38:22 - 00:16:43:21
Unknown
I think maybe they dropped Starling. They dropped the bank part because people genuinely didn't actually believe they were a bank.

00:16:43:21 - 00:16:51:22
Unknown
I don't mean that in a serious way, but, like, really, like, they don't have a credit card. They don't have loans. They're certainly like missing some banking elements.

00:16:51:22 - 00:16:57:23
Unknown
And I wonder if they drop bank as well because they felt like, well, it doesn't necessarily apply to us.

00:16:57:23 - 00:17:08:12
Unknown
They are licensed, my friend. Yeah. It's a bit of a stretch for me to say something like that. But you know what? There are some products that they're missing. And then there's, you know, I don't know, little things like

00:17:08:12 - 00:17:09:07
Unknown
this announcement.

00:17:09:07 - 00:17:21:08
Unknown
Right. This brand refresh page, it's like category icons and new fonts, like, this is the kind of announcement that gets graphic designers like horny excuse my French like, gets them excited,

00:17:21:08 - 00:17:25:14
Unknown
but no one really cares about new app icons,

00:17:25:14 - 00:17:39:11
Unknown
We care about new banking products or benefits like rewards on our spending like Starling. Still don't have like a direct cashback reward system.

00:17:39:11 - 00:17:41:09
Unknown
You have to go to a third party app like tail,

00:17:41:09 - 00:17:46:12
Unknown
it's really quite difficult to set up benefits and rewards for your spending. Inside the inside the Starling app,

00:17:46:12 - 00:17:55:14
Unknown
they're easy access savings account. Yeah, and it's still not that competitive. It's 3.75%. I think the best right now is 4.5, which is Chase UK. We'll talk about more more on that at the end of the episode.

00:17:55:19 - 00:18:08:11
Unknown
So what I'm saying is like new app icons, new categories like seriously, like this rebrand looks more like an attempt to stay current, to look innovative, to to to look like they're making progress

00:18:08:11 - 00:18:13:05
Unknown
But, hey, you know what? Their business account holders can can now get an aubergine color debit card.

00:18:13:05 - 00:18:24:13
Unknown
I mean, I didn't know aubergine was a color before. Before I read Starling's announcement. It's. Yeah. Right. Not sure what you think about that, but I. I don't know, Johnny.

00:18:24:13 - 00:18:26:19
Unknown
a deep dark purple.

00:18:26:19 - 00:18:30:15
Unknown
purple. It's not aubergine color, but, hey, aubergine sounds better.

00:18:30:15 - 00:18:32:05
Unknown
All right.

00:18:32:05 - 00:18:42:14
Unknown
And there's this electric teal brand color. Did you see that? Like, to me that sounds more like a vaping flavor. It it doesn't it it doesn't scream like,

00:18:42:14 - 00:18:45:03
Unknown
banking, branding. It just to me, this seems

00:18:45:03 - 00:18:46:14
Unknown
like a step backwards.

00:18:46:19 - 00:18:58:04
Unknown
I wish they could have stuck with the bird. Like why? Like Lloyds. Have Lloyds have a horse? Why can they stick with the bird and like play off the starling bird? I thought that was fantastic.

00:19:00:01 - 00:19:08:00
Unknown
Johnny. So. Yeah, I mean, who knows, maybe. Maybe from a design perspective, this is actually really clever and really good. I don't know,

00:19:08:08 - 00:19:11:19
Unknown
The voice of reason there. I really appreciate that, mate. I really do.

00:19:11:19 - 00:19:20:06
Unknown
let's look at this fraud list. Okay, so Starling Bank, something they're doing well is. And not the most complained about bank. So that's really, really promising.

00:19:20:06 - 00:19:21:08
Unknown
But Revolut are.

00:19:21:08 - 00:19:29:14
Unknown
basically revolute customers they've had, get it for just about 3000. App fraud complaints to the,

00:19:29:14 - 00:19:31:21
Unknown
the Financial Ombudsman Service.

00:19:31:23 - 00:19:32:10
Unknown
Johnny, you

00:19:33:23 - 00:19:34:16
Unknown
Nice.

00:19:34:16 - 00:19:54:08
Unknown
What are app complaints? To app central authorized push payments. That's basically. Yeah. Basically all kinds of payments where where someone motivates the victim to send money independently. So the victim actually authorizes these transactions. Could be could be something like a dating scam.

00:19:54:10 - 00:19:56:12
Unknown
Or Roman scam. I believe that's how they're called.

00:19:56:12 - 00:20:13:01
Unknown
basically most banks, they, they do reimburse these payments. I believe starting 2025, they're actually required to do that, in the UK. Not sure what's the exact deadline there, but it's, Yeah. Revolute apparently hasn't been refunding some of these, so.

00:20:13:01 - 00:20:13:14
Unknown
And

00:20:13:14 - 00:20:17:03
Unknown
why 3000 people complain with the Ombudsman Service.

00:20:17:03 - 00:20:34:06
Unknown
know, in some ways it's like. Well, getting lots and lots of complaints could also be determined by the number of users you have. So obviously banks with large amounts of users will get large amounts or are more likely to get more complaints. But how many people are really using Revolut as their main banking service in the UK, given that they're not fully licensed yet?

00:20:34:11 - 00:20:38:20
Unknown
I know they've got loads of customers, but I still don't think that argument stands with Revolut.

00:20:38:20 - 00:20:51:04
Unknown
find it strange because Revolut certainly isn't the most used bank in the UK. I know Barclays were on this list. Barclays are very popular here, so that's a good example of that. But Revolut

00:20:51:04 - 00:21:13:19
Unknown
what I thought actually, it could be it could be amount of the amount of customers they have. Right. If you have more customers, obviously going to get more complaints. But did I, I looked, looked at their website and compared it with, with Starlink's website and, you know what Starling has? What Revolut doesn't have, a hotline that you can call if you feel, that your payment request feels a little off.

00:21:13:19 - 00:21:15:19
Unknown
You know, if you use you suspecting a

00:21:15:22 - 00:21:18:14
Unknown
That's good, that's good.

00:21:18:14 - 00:21:24:19
Unknown
stop the payment immediately. And Revolut doesn't seem to have that. They have a they have a form. You need to fill it out. But,

00:21:24:19 - 00:21:37:14
Unknown
you know, forms, take some some time to answer them. Yeah. The, the fraud is then being reported, but, I don't know how successful they would be in, in, in stopping the payment before it actually goes

00:21:37:18 - 00:21:47:12
Unknown
Yeah. This really tightrope, isn't it, to to try and walk across. Because in one on one side, they want to have things in place that are going to stop these transactions from happening,

00:21:47:12 - 00:21:52:15
Unknown
But on the flip side of the tightrope is the fact that they don't want to freeze accounts.

00:21:52:15 - 00:22:03:17
Unknown
They don't want to freeze transactions of people that are just using their accounts, because that in itself can be like a customer service optic nightmare, which is something the Revolut has already had problems with.

00:22:03:17 - 00:22:08:00
Unknown
So I imagine they're having to walk this tightrope of trying to have like really strong,

00:22:08:00 - 00:22:09:07
Unknown
robust fraud system.

00:22:09:07 - 00:22:17:21
Unknown
Detective detecting detection systems in place, but without making mistakes and and freezing people's accounts, for example.

00:22:23:01 - 00:22:24:20
Unknown
Yeah.

00:22:24:20 - 00:22:27:19
Unknown
I don't know how successful that will be, but,

00:22:30:08 - 00:22:30:16
Unknown
When

00:22:30:16 - 00:22:33:14
Unknown
exciting news. They revealed a new,

00:22:35:15 - 00:22:40:05
Unknown
Exciting news.

00:22:40:07 - 00:22:47:11
Unknown
The sooner you it does.

00:22:50:13 - 00:22:52:01
Unknown
We,

00:22:52:01 - 00:22:53:09
Unknown
architect again.

00:23:01:02 - 00:23:05:18
Unknown
It looks futuristic. It's what you envisage. A company like Revolut or just Revolut would have as a building.

00:23:05:18 - 00:23:15:19
Unknown
Now, imagine being one of the founding members and walking through that door right every day. Potentially. There must be a an incredible feeling.

00:23:16:05 - 00:23:19:07
Unknown
Yeah. What's interesting what's interesting is that they are

00:23:19:07 - 00:23:25:15
Unknown
a remote, hybrid based organization. I think they celebrate the fact that a lot of their roles are still remote.

00:23:25:15 - 00:23:29:07
Unknown
least that's what I believe to be true. I, I think that's true.

00:23:29:07 - 00:23:34:19
Unknown
But they've got this really fancy, really beautiful office space that must have cost hundreds of thousands.

00:23:34:19 - 00:23:58:01
Unknown
And for an organization that quite clearly needs to invest in growth, invest in marketing, invest in referral bonuses that they love to send, send to us, it does seem like a a big investment, right, for office space, which I don't know right in in terms of like futuristic capitalism and organization and business, it doesn't seem like it's

00:23:58:01 - 00:24:00:00
Unknown
necessarily the best place to invest.

00:24:00:00 - 00:24:19:19
Unknown
Yeah. Good point. But, if it motivates more remote people to come to the office on a regular basis, I mean, maybe there's a, an increase in productivity from that as well. I don't know, personally. Johnny. Time will tell. But yeah, speaking of investments, to actually announce that they're going to invest about 10 billion pounds, 13 billion USD, roughly,

00:24:19:19 - 00:24:30:19
Unknown
globally or across the next five years, and, $4 billion will be invested in the UK, 1.2 billion in France, and I believe 500 million or so in the US.

00:24:30:21 - 00:24:48:20
Unknown
The rest and other markets. And, that will create apparently 10,000 new jobs worldwide. That's, that's a good thing for sure. And that also shows that are that are really. Yeah. Onto their mission of reaching I believe is 100 million customers by the by the end of the decade or so.

00:24:48:20 - 00:24:51:23
Unknown
I know it's it's actually mid 2027.

00:24:52:01 - 00:24:56:08
Unknown
They're planning to reach 100 million. So that's even more ambitious. Got to invest in.

00:24:56:08 - 00:25:07:06
Unknown
I imagine if you invested $13 billion 15 to 20 years ago, how many employees would that be worth to just create 10,000 jobs from $13 billion

00:25:07:06 - 00:25:11:20
Unknown
like that is a crazy amount of money per employee or per job that you created.

00:25:11:20 - 00:25:23:04
Unknown
I don't think a huge amount of that investment will be going to creating jobs. I'm not even sure if if that's a number that's necessarily worth celebrating, it is a good thing, of course, but is it a way of being like, well,

00:25:23:04 - 00:25:27:00
Unknown
jobs are at risk as a result of us building like AI chat bots.

00:25:27:04 - 00:25:47:12
Unknown
So here, look, don't worry, we are still building out our employee base as well. And possibly a lot of those jobs will go towards like fraud detection, customer protection roles like security roles. But that was my initial thought. Yann. I was like, wow, just 10,000 jobs from that $13 billion worth of investments.

00:25:47:12 - 00:25:53:05
Unknown
cares if it's actually 5000 jobs even, that's still a success. They're not in a charity business. They're for profit company.

00:25:53:05 - 00:25:53:19
Unknown
Sure.

00:25:53:19 - 00:26:01:03
Unknown
So they're, their target is obviously to to invest in money, in a way that it brings the most return on investment.

00:26:01:03 - 00:26:02:19
Unknown
not in the market of creating jobs.

00:26:02:19 - 00:26:08:14
Unknown
It's a positive side effect, that society profits on, of course, but, it's not their, their main objective here.

00:26:08:14 - 00:26:11:15
Unknown
It's just I think it's just like an indication of where we are at the moment

00:26:11:15 - 00:26:28:15
Unknown
in 2025 where human resources like human jobs, they're not necessarily the first thing that gets created when investments are made and, and businesses grow. Whereas before businesses or organizations were entirely run by the people that worked for them. So if you wanted to grow, you need to grow your employee base.

00:26:28:15 - 00:26:53:05
Unknown
you want to talk about the EU interest rates quickly?

00:26:53:05 - 00:27:01:04
Unknown
Yeah. So in the UK, a few things have been happening. The Chase saver Chase UK savings account was reduced from 4.75% to 4.5%,

00:27:01:04 - 00:27:02:16
Unknown
And the Chase saver was

00:27:02:16 - 00:27:05:16
Unknown
the best savings account in the UK. But that's changed now.

00:27:05:16 - 00:27:11:07
Unknown
The best account is now Oxbridge Bank with this 180 day notice base rate tracker account

00:27:11:07 - 00:27:25:21
Unknown
And if you don't feel comfortable with that amount of time, will Hawkesbury Bank also have this 128? Sorry, 120 day notice account, which is only 0.1% less, which is probably quite generous considering you get an extra 60 days.

00:27:25:21 - 00:27:33:03
Unknown
But the minimum deposit on that account is 10,000 pounds, whereas the 180 day notice is 1,000 pounds.

00:27:33:03 - 00:27:40:02
Unknown
There are a couple of one year fixes which are quite interesting. Oak North Bank have a fix of 4.45%, and

00:27:40:02 - 00:27:43:06
Unknown
J and Bank have a fix at 4.43%,

00:27:43:06 - 00:27:44:12
Unknown
but generally speaking,

00:27:44:12 - 00:27:47:10
Unknown
these rates aren't really that compelling when you look at the bigger picture.

00:27:47:10 - 00:27:52:23
Unknown
Like inflation, for example, which in the UK right now is running about 3.8%,

00:27:53:08 - 00:27:54:15
Unknown
but we hope you enjoyed today's video.

00:27:54:15 - 00:27:57:22
Unknown
Let us know in the comment section if you have any thoughts on any of the topics we discussed, like

00:27:57:22 - 00:28:09:06
Unknown
go have a look at Sterling's rebrand. Let us know what you think. If you are starting customer, let us know what you think. They did change the app slightly and which could be quite interesting. Some people, some people might like the new layout, the new design.

00:28:09:12 - 00:28:11:06
Unknown
So do let us know in the comment section

00:28:11:06 - 00:28:25:21
Unknown
if you have any funny stories as well. Have interactions with AI chat bots. I'd love to hear from you. Like what are your thoughts on AI chat bots in banking? Like a real person, not a real person, but like a live voice talking to you when you're trying to say like, hey, someone's trying to steal my money.

00:28:25:21 - 00:28:33:18
Unknown
And this is voice going, it's okay, hold for a moment and I will help you. Like, would that annoy you? Maybe that voice would,

00:28:33:18 - 00:28:36:05
Unknown
And as always, if you enjoyed the video, enjoyed listening to the podcast, whether

00:28:36:05 - 00:28:41:12
Unknown
you're watching on YouTube, whether you're listening on Apple or Spotify, please do give us a like rate us.

00:28:41:14 - 00:28:45:20
Unknown
Subscribe. Just these little things that you can do to help support Yana and I and

00:28:46:05 - 00:28:46:12
Unknown
help

00:28:47:01 - 00:28:48:16
Unknown
grow and help us develop this channel.

00:28:48:16 - 00:28:52:15
Unknown
Thanks everyone for listening. It's been a pleasure as always. Looking forward to next episode.