Will Lloyds Bank REALLY Buy Curve?! Monzo Back At The Top & More!

In this episode of Banking Without Borders, we dive into one of the strangest fintech stories of the year: Lloyds Bank is reportedly in talks to buy Curve, but why would the UK’s biggest high street bank want a struggling wallet app? We break down what’s really going on, from Apple Pay’s NFC lock-in to Lloyds’ wider payments strategy.

We also cover:

• Monzo’s return to the top spot in the CMA banking satisfaction survey
• Monzo’s plans to launch mobile services and chase “super app” status
• Bunq setting sights on the US market
• Revolut becoming the biggest bank in Lithuania by assets

Join us as we unpack what these moves mean for banking, fintech, and your money.

Connect with us (via LinkedIn)

Jan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jan-watermann/

Jonny: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonny-pease

Got a question or topic you want us to cover? Drop us a message at jonny@technicallymoney.com

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:10
Unknown
Okay. Welcome back to another episode of Banking Without Borders. Today we're going to be doing a fintech recap, looking at some interesting topics from the past couple of weeks and even the past couple of months. One of the topics goes back to July.

00:00:09:13 - 00:00:12:10
Unknown
Thank you to this commenter who pointed this out to us.

00:00:12:11 - 00:00:18:05
Unknown
Lloyds Bank, the largest retail bank in the UK, are considering buying curve now. If you're familiar with curve and

00:00:18:06 - 00:00:22:23
Unknown
customer service, possibly you might be thinking why the bloody hell would anyone want to buy curve?

00:00:23:01 - 00:00:24:00
Unknown
Well, here we are.

00:00:24:01 - 00:00:38:05
Unknown
I don't think anyone saw it coming. It'd be kind of like if, Boris Johnson and Margot Robbie were to hook up. You know, that might make you feel nauseous, but it's potentially going to happen. And Yann and I are going to be discussing why Lloyds would be interested in buying curve.

00:00:38:06 - 00:00:48:04
Unknown
also have Monzo, who recently returned to the top spot of the banking customer satisfaction league table run by the Competition and Markets Authority. Here in the UK.

00:00:48:05 - 00:00:58:16
Unknown
we're going to look at that. That's an interesting result. And also Monzo are going to be potentially launching mobile plans following from Revolut, following from Klarna, following from N26.

00:00:58:17 - 00:01:01:17
Unknown
We'll also explore Bank, who are looking to expand to the US

00:01:01:18 - 00:01:08:19
Unknown
And then finally we'll look at Revolut, who just became the biggest bank in Lithuania by asset value.

00:01:08:20 - 00:01:12:08
Unknown
Quite an accolade considering that he launched in Lithuania five years ago.

00:01:12:09 - 00:01:22:17
Unknown
Yannis here. As always, buddy, shall we begin by discussing this partnership between govt and Lloyds? It's relationship that I think is pretty shocking.

00:01:22:18 - 00:01:50:06
Unknown
Yeah. Absolutely. As you mentioned already, Johnny. Noice. We just, you case not just banks in advance. Talks to buy a, cuff, which is a digital wallet. One could say, cuff was born 20, 2016. And what it does, essentially, it consolidates multiple cards into into a single, they call it smart card, which gives you advantages when paying a broad, like zero of fees.

00:01:50:08 - 00:01:53:02
Unknown
There's also a cashback function and so on.

00:01:53:02 - 00:01:56:08
Unknown
the deal size we're talking about is about 100 to 120

00:01:57:04 - 00:02:11:10
Unknown
which is interesting because curve, or the history of the company has raised about 200 million, in funding. Never really became profitable. So, yeah,

00:02:11:12 - 00:02:17:16
Unknown
Shareholders. Shareholders? Yeah. Well, I've been.

00:02:17:18 - 00:02:36:21
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, investors will probably see that as a massive failure. That's going to be a write down of possibly 180 million pounds. That's huge. Will it be a failure? I think, in the eyes of their CEO, yeah, it might be a failure because this guy said back in 20, I'm going to just take a stab at this, maybe 2019, possibly.

00:02:36:21 - 00:02:53:21
Unknown
He said around that time, he said that within about a decade, they expect to IPO and be worth 50 to 60 billion. I don't know if you saw that quote, but he was talking about being worth billions of dollars in ten years. So I think in his eyes, he's probably going to think this is a bit of a fail.

00:02:53:23 - 00:03:30:13
Unknown
I imagine for curve, though, it's based at least based on the current outlook of the organization. This is a bit of a result. Yeah, we're talking about a company that's pretty stagnant, arguably more stagnant than stagnant bank. Sorry. I mean, Starling Bank, I mean, they have barely innovated since their infancy because they were originally quite innovative, but since then they've not really been able to take the idea of consolidating multiple cards into one and turning it into something that, in 2025 still stands above the likes of Apple Pay and Google Pay.

00:03:30:13 - 00:03:49:06
Unknown
Because I think for a lot of people, you just ended up asking the questions, why the hell do I need this when I have Apple or Google Pay? And they try to fight back that question by saying, look, we can give you cash back. We can give you go back in time where if you like, accidentally use the wrong card, you can go and shift it over to a different card, a little niche, things like that.

00:03:49:06 - 00:03:59:12
Unknown
But ultimately, like if you weren't paying for like a premium membership with curve, the cashback wasn't that advantageous. Nothing really stood out as being that useful or that beneficial.

00:03:59:12 - 00:04:18:14
Unknown
I think the ethics feature is still, they were initially quite interesting, right? Because in 2016, when there weren't as many challenger banks, fixed fees were were common thing, right? You were paying 2 or 3% when paying with your, your legacy card. Right? Right. That was was a standard thing and could solve the problem quite well.

00:04:18:14 - 00:04:25:07
Unknown
The issue right now is that the market completely shifted and so many challenger banks right now, that offer zero fix fees

00:04:25:07 - 00:04:30:11
Unknown
even without a monthly subscription, that there's really no need to, to be subscribed to the curve anymore, in my

00:04:33:20 - 00:04:55:09
Unknown
I yeah, yeah there will be people out there that might be able to tell us in the comments section, you know, if you're out there and you've got a decent reason why you subscribe to curve, let us know. I personally enjoyed using it. Yan. Because Capital One, one of the credit cards that I frequently used, didn't have Apple Pay, so I could use curve to spend money through Apple Pay on my Capital One card.

00:04:55:09 - 00:05:10:19
Unknown
That was brilliant. But then I stopped using my Capital One card so I had no use for it. But otherwise it's difficult for me as well, buddy, to put a reason why people would want to use it. And there are some really bad red flags at this company. Like if you look at their Trustpilot,

00:05:10:19 - 00:05:12:04
Unknown
think it's a 2.6,

00:05:12:04 - 00:05:14:10
Unknown
maybe a two, 2.2, maybe a 2.6.

00:05:14:10 - 00:05:17:18
Unknown
It's definitely worth checking that. 2.9 okay, I was being harsh.

00:05:17:18 - 00:05:19:04
Unknown
okay. But that's that's still pretty low.

00:05:19:04 - 00:05:23:23
Unknown
It's not actually as low as Lloyds Bank. Yeah. Who I found I think they have the 1.60,

00:05:23:23 - 00:05:26:13
Unknown
So maybe they're hoping to combine Trustpilot scores

00:05:26:13 - 00:05:28:04
Unknown
to be worth 4.5. Possibly.

00:05:28:04 - 00:05:36:14
Unknown
That's the goal of this. But yeah, their Trustpilot is really poor. I noticed, some really bad things happening on Glassdoor.

00:05:36:14 - 00:05:38:14
Unknown
Yeah. And are you familiar with Glassdoor?

00:05:38:14 - 00:05:41:14
Unknown
I just employee, employee feedback platform, isn't it?

00:05:41:14 - 00:06:00:15
Unknown
So this is a employee of gov who left this. They work in the customer service department. Customer. And this is what they were I'm going to paraphrase and make this really quick curve. Customers will be aware the waiting times for support are incredibly bad. Yes. This is because this is because those in charge at curve do not support their team.

00:06:00:15 - 00:06:06:03
Unknown
They interfere with training with targets, trying to make everything more and more condensed until the customer experience is a bad one.

00:06:06:03 - 00:06:15:08
Unknown
They push more and more features which will be an embarrassing failure and not work, causing even more backlog for the team as customers get in touch to complain.

00:06:15:08 - 00:06:18:22
Unknown
So what? Like the the you know, if you're trying to make sense of that curve, just

00:06:18:22 - 00:06:30:19
Unknown
trying to be innovative, trying to create new products and as a result, you know, they rush out those products and as a result, customers try to use them and they have major problems with them, and they complain to customer service, so they deal with the problems.

00:06:30:21 - 00:06:50:01
Unknown
I'll finish off this paragraph that we were made to do what they called a blitz, where we worked for 60 hours in the office for a week. We pulled together as a team and worked really hard clearing the backlog rather than congratulating us or offering any positive words. We were then told that our targets have vastly increased, and if we didn't meet the targets, we would lose our jobs.

00:06:55:11 - 00:06:57:15
Unknown
Well, as in what? What do you mean?

00:07:01:03 - 00:07:14:10
Unknown
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I guess it is. Yes, I guess it is. I just oh, sensitive. Oh.

00:07:14:10 - 00:07:45:12
Unknown
Well, I think we'll be okay, but I get what you're saying. I mean, look, it all just it all just reinforces the customer service problem, the, you know, curve of had for a while. And it makes you again, ask the question, well, why would Lloyds want to buy this yarn? Because it's a failing fledgling startup with what sounds to me like bad culture, tired employees with a high churn, high labor turnover, fledgling downloads, stagnant innovation.

00:07:45:12 - 00:08:05:06
Unknown
I mean, what what would compel Lloyds to to buy curve and I have a theory on. Well, I don't think it's a theory necessarily this Sky news article kind of points it out, but it would give Lloyds ready made wallet technology in the same sort of form form factor as Apple Pay.

00:08:05:06 - 00:08:07:12
Unknown
this is why they're interested.

00:08:07:12 - 00:08:09:14
Unknown
This is why they want this product.

00:08:09:14 - 00:08:22:15
Unknown
And it comes down to essentially Apple's control over Apple Pay and the NFC chips inside the iPhone, which allows your phone to communicate with payment terminals. And Apple have control over that.

00:08:22:15 - 00:08:25:13
Unknown
it's like having a, a key to a cash register.

00:08:25:19 - 00:08:27:17
Unknown
And then renting that key to the banks.

00:08:27:17 - 00:08:46:16
Unknown
Apple then can charge these banks a large amount of money to, when they process payments through Apple Pay. And right now in the EU and the UK, the regulators are looking at this and possibly looking to, say to Apple, no, this isn't okay. You're going to have to give up access to these NFC chips.

00:08:46:16 - 00:08:54:04
Unknown
And you know, the likes of Revolut, the likes of Chase UK, the likes of Lloyd, perhaps they could have their own sort of tap to pay system inside the app.

00:08:54:04 - 00:09:10:08
Unknown
And if that was to happen and Lloyds already had access to the tech of curve, well then they would already have their own Lloyds wallet ready to go at any moment where possibly they could have, like a proper tap to pay system where they could control those chips.

00:09:10:08 - 00:09:16:14
Unknown
Yann. And also possibly charge a fee to any other bank, or provided that are using

00:09:16:14 - 00:09:20:16
Unknown
curve pay or Lloyds pay at the time. It's quite interesting. That could be what they're thinking.

00:09:20:17 - 00:09:21:08
Unknown
But how does

00:09:21:08 - 00:09:27:12
Unknown
Yeah, it works on iPhones but it it works on iPhones, but it works in your Apple Pay.

00:09:27:12 - 00:09:46:10
Unknown
It's just a just it exists in your Apple Pay wallet. And then on the back end then on the back end, you select which card you want, you want it to use. So you within the app, you select the card that you want it to use, and you just tap to pay through Apple Pay. So kind of have to pay your or whichever bank is connected to your curve card, have to pay Apple.

00:09:46:10 - 00:09:52:02
Unknown
Still when it's when it gets processed, when the payment gets processed through Apple Pay, Apple pay are the gatekeepers,

00:09:52:02 - 00:09:58:05
Unknown
of transactions. And that is a big, big problem. A

00:09:58:05 - 00:10:10:19
Unknown
bank that's not having as many problems as the others right now is Monzo sitting at the top of the, Competition and Market Authority's recent survey into the best banks in the UK?

00:10:10:19 - 00:10:37:17
Unknown
At least 17 of our top banks in the UK. Yeah, and basically this survey, asks roughly a thousand people if they would recommend their provider. And it looks at stuff like, overall service, online and web services and even overdraft facilities. Monzo just happened to overall happen to have the best score of 82% of their customers would recommend them.

00:10:37:19 - 00:11:15:09
Unknown
What is interesting, Yann to me, is that the ones at the bottom, the likes of Rb's, Virgin Money and the Co-operative Bank, 49, 50 and 51% of their customers would not recommend their own bank. Like what? Why are you using them? Then?

00:11:15:11 - 00:11:19:22
Unknown
Oh please.

00:11:20:00 - 00:11:43:14
Unknown
It's unbelievable. I just can't I find that so, so hard to get my head around. There are a couple of interesting ones, like they have, online and mobile banking services where they ask them if they'd recommend their app or their web services, and Monzo just crushed it with 87% of customers recommending it. And, obviously, I know that you don't have a huge amount of experience with UK challenger banks, but most of their apps are really good.

00:11:43:16 - 00:12:05:03
Unknown
But Starling with 84%, Monzo at 87%, they're significantly ahead of even Starling Bank and I think there's a few reasons for that. Yeah. But they have a really good community where they roll out products to the community first, collect feedback and then roll it out wider across the Monzo customer ecosystem. And I think that's been extremely successful for them.

00:12:05:03 - 00:12:28:11
Unknown
So instead of doing maybe the curve approach and rolling things out really aggressively and then having customers complain that nothing works, they are really good at testing stuff. And it's obviously paying off for them. You know, they are doing extremely well. They are expanding rapidly, growing their customer base and still being able to maintain a really positive rating.

00:12:28:13 - 00:12:37:02
Unknown
Yeah. Chase UK dropped off.

00:12:37:04 - 00:12:58:02
Unknown
Yeah. I think that plays a big part in it. Yeah. And I think there's maybe even a bit of a, a bit of a cultish environment like there, there are people who are incredibly, committed to Monzo, I think. I think to be fair, rightfully so. It is a really good product and quite difficult to criticize.

00:12:58:04 - 00:13:20:19
Unknown
You know, it's quite difficult to say why on earth would you you know, why on earth would you be into to Monzo? You know, maybe cult like is the wrong terminology is the wrong word to use, because I think that has a bit of a negative connotation. Yeah, I'm sure we can think of a few cult leaders, so, you know, probably not quite as good or nicer or as good quality as Monzo.

00:13:20:21 - 00:13:46:07
Unknown
But yeah, and I think the community does play a bit of a part in this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I do, I do, but I thought that was really interesting that I'm pleased for Monzo. Starling managing also to hold up and stay near the top. Halifax, one of the more incumbent legacy banks in the UK, sitting in the top five, for online and mobile banking services, which I think is quite interesting.

00:13:46:09 - 00:14:09:12
Unknown
Purely because I'm a Halifax, user personally, and as you've heard previously, you've heard me complain about their web services for trading stocks and shares, which weren't really applied to probably anybody else's filling out this survey because it's very consumer led, kind of personal banking led, but it was a bit surprised by Halifax, to be fair.

00:14:09:14 - 00:14:39:16
Unknown
Yeah. Monzo. Also preparing mobile plans. Yeah. Did you see this one?

00:14:39:18 - 00:14:59:05
Unknown
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, obviously, you know, money that that that is like the easy answer, like to generate more revenue. But realistically how much revenue you're going to generate in a market that's already heavily saturated and you're going to be a virtual, virtual mobile network operator, I think it's known as where you piggyback off the existing infrastructure.

00:14:59:07 - 00:15:17:02
Unknown
So you don't even own the infrastructure where you could, I don't know, possibly be able to provide a bit of a, you know, bit of a different differentiator in the sense that you could be like, oh, we have like service in a certain area that's stronger or better than this service. You know, you're going to piggyback off of two, you're going to piggyback with E3.

00:15:17:02 - 00:15:47:01
Unknown
How are you going to really stand out then beyond price? And the market, like I said, is already so saturated. Units these days, like contract only, data only, products are just super competitive. And that's not where these telecommunication companies make their money. They make their money on the handsets and long drawn out contracts of like three years where you eventually pay back the handset, but they hold you on some obscenely expensive contract.

00:15:47:03 - 00:16:03:07
Unknown
Monzo won't be able to offer that. So what do you think, buddy? What do you think? Why would Monzo, why would Monzo do this?

00:16:07:12 - 00:16:15:21
Unknown
Yeah. Valuation.

00:16:24:06 - 00:16:27:05
Unknown
Yeah.

00:16:27:07 - 00:16:46:21
Unknown
Yeah yeah yeah I think there is definitely an element of that. I think when you start to, to look at that as the bigger picture here, you start to think, well when you, when you use the word super app and Monzo, you think, well that could increase their valuation. You know, these are more ways for them to acquire more customers with probably not a huge investment.

00:16:46:23 - 00:17:24:16
Unknown
So why not? You know, it's going to help you appear to be, more popular to shareholders. You're going to be able to get more customers. You can call yourself a super app. You can list at a more expensive price on the New York Stock Exchange. You know, you can raise more capital in the US markets. That could be why, you know.

00:17:36:14 - 00:18:11:17
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another reason I thought maybe it's just a means of upselling accounts like the more premium plans, the, Monzo. Max. I believe in Monzo perks. Hopefully I've got that right. Correct me in the comments if I haven't, but they have these premium plans, Yann. And if you tack on a mobile plan or an eSIM or free data, you you know, we know from Revolut its financial accounts and and Monzo is to be fair, not that I've read them quite as closely in his detail as Revolut, but these premium plans are a big driver of revenue and they have fantastic margins.

00:18:11:23 - 00:18:24:17
Unknown
And, you know, adding in a little extra that could help sell them.

00:18:24:19 - 00:18:47:12
Unknown
So how do we segue to bunk? Is there any way to segue to bunk? Except the fact that bunk, a setting course for the US looking to expand out there, maybe they'll have mobile plans as well. Yann.

00:18:47:14 - 00:19:27:09
Unknown
Yeah.

00:19:27:11 - 00:20:12:21
Unknown
Yeah. Bunk is one of those neobanks in the EU that I felt like I would love to see in the UK. They've got some really interesting products and offerings. Have you had the opportunity to try them?

00:20:12:23 - 00:20:51:03
Unknown
Yeah. They're charging 18. You're €19 for Bunk Elite.

00:20:51:05 - 00:21:04:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah.

00:21:04:04 - 00:21:27:01
Unknown
Yeah I mean you came out well who was drunk when they came up with that idea. Let us never going to. It's still going to be a positively received idea for an account. I can't imagine many people will like. Yeah, I'll, I'll pick that one. So every time I transact, you make a small donation that's like those annoying payment terminals when they say to you, would you like to donate a figure?

00:21:27:01 - 00:21:46:18
Unknown
You know, when you go to pay for something, it says you want to donate to charity. You think, oh, no, I don't want to donate to charity. I just want to buy the socks. And then go, you know, it just.

00:21:46:20 - 00:21:54:08
Unknown
Oh.

00:21:54:10 - 00:22:18:07
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You don't think I'm like, some cold, callous, anti donation person? I'm not at all. But ultimately, like John said, like I'd like to donate on my own time. Possibly someone comes to me and they're like, hey, I'm running a triathlon. I'm raising money for, you know, like cancer research. I'd be like, great, I'll donate because you're my friend.

00:22:18:07 - 00:22:38:08
Unknown
I want to support you, you know? But like I just said, you know, I'm buying a coffee. And Costa, you know, I don't want to make a donation, which is like 50% of the value of my coffee. Revolut. Revolution. Revolut have become the biggest bank by asset value. Can you help me make sense of this in Lithuania?

00:22:38:11 - 00:23:18:06
Unknown
Pretty big deal.

00:23:18:08 - 00:23:23:22
Unknown
Yeah.

00:23:28:05 - 00:23:49:04
Unknown
No I it is a good question. No. The challenge has has become the challenge. Does that make sense. No I don't think it does does it. But you know what I'm saying. Right. That's. Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective. It's funny that Revolut haven't really screamed or shouted about this, which I think is probably something to do with what you said about the population.

00:23:49:04 - 00:24:15:21
Unknown
It's like something like two and a half to 3 million people in Lithuania, which isn't a huge big deal. So, you know, it's not that impressive. To be fair, Revolut aren't screaming to the high hills about it, whereas, you know, they hit 50 million customers. They'll announce it with a massive trombone saying, go us. But the Lithuania statistic hasn't really been bothered to talk about, nonetheless.

00:24:15:23 - 00:24:21:02
Unknown
Still very impressive.

00:24:21:04 - 00:24:49:20
Unknown
Well, that just about rounds us up for today, doesn't it? Yeah. And do we have anything else to discuss? Anything else you want to you want to talk about before we finish?

00:24:49:22 - 00:25:09:00
Unknown
Yeah. No. Nothing really. I mean, except if you do use curve and I've offended you today, then, you know, I don't, I'd like I'd like to hear from you. Let me know if you if you have, like, a positive argument in favor of curve, I'd love to hear it. And if you have any experiences, maybe negative or positive, let us know.

00:25:09:00 - 00:25:13:13
Unknown
Share in the comment section and we'll see you in the next episode. Goodbye.